Everything Must Groove
Jan 10, 2008 3:51 PM, By Ken Micallef
Interview with Steely Dan's Walter Becker and Donald Fagen
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Do you use in-ear systems onstage?
Becker: We have in the past. The only thing that's not so good about those is that you tend to feel that you aren't at the event, and that you are hearing it from somewhere else. In-ears cut you off a little bit from the immediacy of being onstage with musicians and playing. Most of the sound comes from the front monitors and the musicians' amps and the drums. The bass is pretty loud, and the horn players are right behind me so I can certainly hear them.
What do you like to hear in your monitor mix?
Fagen: When I'm singing, I need to hear my voice and piano and stuff like that. When I'm playing, I need to hear drums — mostly hi- hat — and keyboards. I got a guitar player next to me and the bass spreads well.
Becker: It doesn't matter as much to me as to Donald. Singing is so much harder than playing. I am trying to think why Donald gets the females behind him. Mostly he is hearing the vocals through monitors. But if I could have girls behind me instead of horn players, I'd have it, too. That is an interesting idea.
What does it take to play in your band?
Becker: The bottom line is that you have to play with a lot of feeling, personality, and soul. Along the way, generally speaking, you have to be well trained, a good reader, and versatile. You have to do lots of different things to play with us. We tend to work with people that we like to be with, too. Sometimes you meet someone who is a great player but that you don't want to see again.
In a recent issue of Onstage, Carlos Santana spoke of telling his band to hit the G spot during performance. What kind of pre-show pep talk do you give your band?
Becker: Our conversation is similar in subject matter, although different in tone.
Fagen: We say the same thing but we are probably talking about something else.
Becker: We are not talking about music.
Are there any proven problem-solving methods that you use when rehearsing bands?
Becker: There are a lot of little things that we do to nudge things in a new direction. None of them are surefire. Often we have players change parts: if we have two keyboard players — one on acoustic and one on electric — we might have them change places. The different guy playing the different part would change the way something felt. Or one of the guitar players changes his instrument. Sometimes you move the tempo around. Sometimes we start all over again.
Are there any particular songs that you enjoy playing live?
Becker: I love playing blues-based songs that have just the right level of enhancement; not necessarily 12-bar blues structurally, but tunes that are basically bluesy. “Chain Lightning” is great to play. “Josie” is even more fun, because it is sort of a blues song. It is structurally and harmonically strongly related to the blues, but it is not strictly just an altered blues. “Black Friday” is blues based, but it's not a 12-bar blues. “Chain Lightning” is an altered blues, with a 12-bar structure and some very interesting alterations. A tremendous amount of what we do is very blues inflected. There's a lot of bluesy stuff, and there are some standard 12-bar things. There are some on the new album. “The Last Mall” is basically an altered blues.
Do you think younger players care as much about the blues?
Becker: I imagine it's arcane to them, the idea that there is music called the blues, and that blues licks evolved that are an ultimate dialect you can use at almost any time. It adds a certain color and musical tension, as if somebody is talking and they suddenly go into a Brooklyn accent. Probably people who don't have a sense of the blues and what the connotations of that idiom are couldn't possibly understand the idea of playing blues licks over major-seventh chords. Solo playing for me is an outgrowth of listening to jazz and blues players like B.B. King or Freddie King or Hubert Sumlin. Plus the people who modeled themselves on those guys, like Eric Clapton.
With all your road experience, what advice can you give to aspiring bands?
Becker: It took us so long to get our band the way it is, I think I'm the wrong person to be giving advice. The route we took was circuitous. The most important thing is to enjoy it and always be straight ahead and strive for tone.
Does the live Steely Dan album, Alive in America, still hold up for you?
Becker: I wouldn't know. I don't listen to any of that old shit, those old Steely Dan records. I like to listen to records made in the year 1956. That was a really good year.
Ken Micallef is a New York-based music journalist. He wishes to thank Susan Markheim and Brian Tomasini from Azoff Music Management, Luke Burland, Bob Bradshaw, Wayne Williams, Skip Gildersleave, Ted Baker, Jon Herington, Tom Barney, and Keith Carlock.
Walter Becker's setup on the Two Against Nature tour, consisted of two Sadowsky solid-body electrics, a fairly complex effects rack/switching system designed by electronics guru Bob Bradshaw (customaudioelectronics.com), as well as Bogner Ecstasy and Mesa/Boogie Maverick amplifiers. Despite having a rackfull of effects at his disposal (including a Lexicon PCM 80, a Lexicon Reflex, two Roland SE-70s, a CAE Super Tremolo, and more), Becker says he doesn't use that many effects onstage. “The reality is that, most of the time when you are playing in a venue, unless it is a concert hall, there's already more ambience and diffusion and more repeats than you want,” he says. “So you're trying to get clarity rather than lushness.” (There was talk in the Steely Dan camp that Becker's setup would be changing for this tour, but no firm details were available at press time.)
Donald Fagen's rig is relatively simple (see Fig. A), consisting of a Fender Rhodes 88-key suitcase model piano going direct through an MXR Phase 90 phaser pedal. He also uses a Lync LN4 MIDI controller (now out of production) that's MIDI'd to a Roland JV-1080 module (which he sets to a jazz-guitar type of patch). “I am in big trouble now because I only have one and a half Lync's left,” says Fagen. At which point Becker retorts: “In other words, our performing career can't go on indefinitely unless somebody is going to resume manufacturing this keyboard.”
Ted Baker, the band's other keyboardist, uses a setup that features a Steinway baby grand piano (typically miked with two Shure SM82s) and an organ (either a Roland VK-7 or a Hammond B-3) through a Leslie 122 cabinet.
Drummer Keith Carlock plays a six-piece Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute drum kit consisting of either a 14" × 5.5" or 14" × 3.5" snare, a 20" 5 14" kick, 10" × 7.5" and 12" × 8" rack toms, and 14" × 14" and 16" × 16" floor toms. His cymbals include K. Zildjian 14" hi-hats, a K. Zildjian 20" Constantinople Medium Ride, and A. Zildjian 19" and 18" Custom Crashes.
Guitarist Jon Herington's rig consists of Gibson ES-335 and ES-336 guitars and a Fender Telecaster and a Hamer Artist Korina. He uses a Guytron GT100 amplifier with a Guytron 2×12 cabinet. He also has a Digital Music Corporation GCX Guitar Audio Switcher to control his stompboxes, which include a Boss EQ pedal, a Boss TU-2 tuner pedal, an Ibanez Modulation Delay pedal (for a delay or a flanging effect), an MXR Phase 90, a Voodoo Labs Tremolo pedal, an MXR DynaComp, an Ibanez TS9 Tube Screamer, a Boss BD-2 Blues Driver (both modified by Robert Keeley), an Ernie Ball volume pedal, and a Real McCoy Wizard Wah.
Although bassist Tom Barney normally uses (and endorses) Aguilar amps, he's opted for an Eden rig on this tour to get the sound he needs for the Steely Dan material. It consists of a Navigator preamp, a WT-1000 power amp, and four D410XST cabinets. He's playing ESP J-1005 LTD Deluxe and Celinder 5-string basses.
In the annals of '70s and '80s rock, the guitar solos of Steely Dan reign supreme. “Peg” (Jay Graydon), “Reeling in the Years” (Elliot Randall), “Third World Man,” and “Kid Charlemagne” (both Larry Carlton) feature some of the most well-known and hotly executed fingerings since Eric Clapton burned up “Crossroads.” Through the years, Steely Dan has hired a number of mighty guitar slingers to execute these renowned plectrum blowouts in concert. None of them, however, has been more successful (or enjoyed such continual road employment by the band) than Jon Herington.
“I figured out that I had two choices here: I could play this gig the way I wanted to play it, or I could try to second-guess what Donald and Walter wanted me to play,” says Herington. “They're very fussy, but they give you a lot of room. I think I got two comments the entire year I worked with them.”
Herington tried to maintain the essence of the famous recorded solos while adding something of himself. “I wanted to be true to what the fans loved about the original solos, but without constricting my musical instincts. I didn't want it to be a cover-band experience. Instead, I wanted to make it my own and communicate what I loved about the original tracks.”
“I would start with a sonic concept. [For instance] if the tone of the solo was important, I would go from that.” Like “Peg,” for instance. “That solo is so unique, it was hard to play,” laughs Herington. “I didn't want to treat it like an etude. I wanted to be able to improvise. I used the open-G string from the original, and I would play and explore ideas that somehow connected to it. And I would do it with a similar sound, so I could adopt the character of the solo without having to adopt every single note. Sometimes I would quote the beginning of the solo — it seems like part of the composition.”
According to Herington, part of the fun in playing Steely Dan tunes live comes from making such carefully crafted events sound free and spontaneous. “The most important thing is to trust my instincts. They're going to use somebody who comes across with strength and confidence. For me it's about keeping the big picture in mind, and not getting lost in some guitar-playing adventure that's my own agenda and not the music's.”
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